Was the Great Irish Famine (Irish Genocide) what happens when capitalism is allowed to evolve sans government?

Asking this again, since I got nothing but Tu Quoque and ad hominem arguments…

The Irish famine of the 1840s is a great example of free market economics gone horribly wrong. The land owners had plenty of food, the country was very wealthy but the Irish remained poor (60 years prior to the famine, they were officially 2nd class citizens), and thus the food was exported to countries with populations that could pay a higher price to buy it.
Government stayed out of it because it was the market in action, and was forbidden by law to force them to sell it to the Irish.

over 1 million died, and another million left Ireland. regardless of their contributions to our society, I imagine they’d have wanted to stay over there.

so does the rights of a few individuals (the corporations, companies) supersede the needs of the masses (the Irish)?

does the private individual still have the right to sell precious resources at the expense of the "lazy" Irish? (i’m sorry, but if you disagree with this, that is just disgusting)
@Tommy: hey look, a strawman!
@Islam Defenda Ex: actually, they were permitted to own land, etc. anytime after 1780, as that is when they were officially "emancipated".
@Islam Defenda Est: I don’t thumb people down.
@Tommy: no, it’s a strawman, because you are trying to create an argument against it by saying it’s 160 years old and thus irrelevant, when a) it’s effects are much more contemporary than that and b) it’s not irrelevant.

8 Responses to “Was the Great Irish Famine (Irish Genocide) what happens when capitalism is allowed to evolve sans government?”

  1. Islam Delenda Est Says:

    Wow, you sure know how to spin an interesting half-story.

    Considering you did do a pretty decent job telling the parts of an Gorta Mor which helped make your argument, I have a feeling you know the rest of it too, which makes it even worse that you would twist something this sad in order to make a political point.

    The Hunger had far more to do with the way the Brits and their "Anglo-Irish" lieutenants saw the Irish than it did with capitalism. They were viewed and treated as less than human. They were legally prohibited from owning land, voting, assembling in groups of more than three, speaking their own language, attending their own schools, and for many years (though admittedly not by the time of the Hunger) were even barred from practicing their own religion.

    In short, unchecked capitalism did play a part, but it was secondary.

    EDIT: Go ahead and thumbs down me all you like. The facts are on my side.

  2. Racer X Says:

    Yet again with this insane vaguely offensive untrue Potato regulation conspiracy theory. Dude. Please take a moment to learn about what happened (link provided below).

    Any Irish want to set this guy straight? Talk about revisionist history. I don’t care what your politics are; your post is ignorant and I’m sorry the public school system failed you so miserably.

    It does illustrate how people (regardless of their views) decide on a conclusion, and then work backwards… cherry-picking facts, using questionable sources, adapting history to create "examples" and sometimes just making stuff up… to support their position.

  3. Reality is not biased. Says:

    I don’t think Tommy’s response is actually a strawman. More like a red herring.

    The one thing I have to ask about this – why didn’t the Irish grow their own food? I get your point, its just that this seems like an extreme and isolated incident. In most cases I’d expect that either people would be able to provide their own food and shelter, or that corporations would be forced to sell to them or else collapse from a lack of labor.

  4. aeoidhf O Says:

    You are always in here promoting communism. Did ya know that stalin a commy killed 50 million? Or how about Mao .. Another 70 million… Or how about socialist Hitler, maybe 40 million thru wars and genocide. I could name a lot more. And I bet you though christian were evil killers. History has shown athestic commy are far more dangerous.

    Not to mention communism has never worked. Even china is turning into capitalists. Russia fell remember? What for of gov has lasted over 230 years like ours? And to think you have it all figured out with your leftist commy views.. Oink Oink!

  5. George S Says:

    The first lie is there wasn’t "plenty of food." That’s the the same socialist lie that "there is plenty of money, land, etc.." That nonsense is spouted off the cuff without actually counting anything and determining how thin it would redistributed. A big problem socialists ignore is most "wealth" is production assets, not the production itself. Those cannot be dispersed without drastically reducing production thus worsening the situation, not improving it.

    Back to Ireland. It’s population was stabilized by food limitations even in it’s tribal days when tribal wars over the poor rocky land were normal. After Columbus and others redistributed food sources around the world, the Irish had South American potatoes, native to the rocky Andean soil, that grew wonderfully in the similar Irish soil. Having much more food exploded Irish population.

    When the blight hit the single strain potato crop (S.A. had many strains of potato), the grossly overpopulated (for native food sources) Irish starved. Feeding them would have impoverished an also then overpopulating England, so the Irish were forced to moved to the US and impoverished it with a flood of excess labor.

    The Irish hordes caused depression in the Northeast, justified the punitive tariffs on the Southeast’s European trade of tobacco and cotton, and supplied plenty of cannon fodder for the war to stop their resulting secession.

    When you invent "facts" put them in context so people can see the truth. Of course that’s the last thing you Marxists want revealed, isn’t it?

    PS: Half my ancestors were Irish, both cultures (Protestant Scots-Irish and Catholic Irish), and the Catholic side’s flood in (along with hordes of Poles, Italians, and Jews) at the turn into the twentieth century helped cause the depression of the 1930s by undercutting wages with excess labor while straining available resources.

  6. High Plains Drifter Says:

    Using some mighty big words just to say stick to the subject and hypocrite. First of all it is refereed to as the "Great Irish Potato Famine" key word being potato. Looks like we got another communist that needs to go to a re-education camp. Oh-sorry just got Ad-hominem. Back to your question. Britain wanted all of Ireland and the Irish resisted. Brits just let nature take its course and it served their purpose. I’m pretty sure no one from Africa stepped up to the plate to stop this-just a foot note. You probably complain to mother nature who’s rule is survival of the fittest. Hows that debate been going for you? What you’re looking for is Christianity. God is not a respector of persons what he does for one he will do for another.
    Why do I never hear the Jews asking for repriations for over 400 years of slavery in Egypt? Sorry your boys did’nt make the coat. PS: Prince wants his raspberry beret back.

  7. paul s Says:

    The Irish were permitted to own land and in fact contrary to what is often reported most of the ‘evil’ landowners were Irish rather than English, (many of the great land owning lords of Ireland were descended from Norman nobles who arrived in Ireland 800 years earlier, and if someone can claim to be american because they have been there 200 years then certainly someone is irish if they have been there 700+)

    what is also over looked is that the famine hit the protestant poor of northern ireland and the protestant poor of the highlands of Scotland just as badly as the poor catholics in southern ireland, (which in turn lead to thousands of these forgotten people leaving their lands and settling in the US and Canada, (Scots to Canada and the Presbyterian Irish to the Southern States of the US)

    The British Government was working entirely to capitalist principles throughout most of the famine, they could have repealed the ‘Corn Law’s which was a law that barred cheap American corn from being imported to the UK – this allowed British corn prices to remain artificially high (no competition) (famine was common across the whole of the british isles (including England) throughout the period and even up to the the 1880’s when they finally repealed the corn laws as until then corn was so expensive poor people could not afford bread, hence the over reliance on cheap potatoes) when the Government of the time went to consider repealing the law or suspending it for the duration of the irish famine (even then they were not prepared to provide ‘free’ food, they simply wanted to staving poor to buy cheap American corn) the rich landowners from Ireland and Britain rebelled as they did not want to have to lower their prices to compete, (thus cutting into their profits)

    They also refused to issue government food via the workhouses to the poor as they did not want the poor to become reliant on government handouts (socialism, i.e welfare) preferring that the poor continue to work for their bread.
    when they finally did begin to issue food, the people still had to work for it, the government set up a number of building projects such as laying roads etc were the workers would be fed as wages, and which lead to much public outcry around the UK when the media reported scenes of hundreds of emaciated people turning up at workhouse gates every morning with a shovel or pick on their shoulder hoping to be picked for work that day, added to the horror was the stories of men dropping dead mid-swing of their pick and their workmates simply burying them next to the roads they were building, things got so bad the government had to send people out to search the sides of the roads to locate and count the bodies

    The famine was caused by nature but became 100 times worst because there was no welfare or socialism in those days, you either worked or you died, that was the way it was,
    that is what happens when you live in an entirely Capitalist country, without even the smallest trace of Socialism, your either useful to the machine or your forgotten, and the British Empire is perhaps the best example of the best and worst things that pure capitalism can bring,

    (as for the nonsense written above about no rights, no meetings etc, that is rubbish the Irish were allowed to vote, they had their own political parties that sat in the Houses of Parliament in London and one of the most famous irish political figures Daniel O’Connell regularly drew crowds of 100,000 irish to hear him speak (where he would lay into the British government vigorously) and this was just a couple of years before the famine! and 100,000 is clearly more than 3)

  8. Ancient Thinker Says:

    to conservatives, yes.
    Amazing how they want us to go BACK to times like those